Donovan Woods

On this episode of Fuegostine's Music Club. I (Fuegostine) sit down with Canadian folk singer-songwriter Donovan Woods. We spend time talking about his new album, the rigors of touring, mental health and how it pertains to men, as well as other various topics. Donovan Woods has a new album out entitled Things Were Never Good If They're Not Good Now. He is also about to kick off a tour across Canada and the US. 

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Transcript

Matt (00:00)
The following is a conversation with Donovan Woods. He is a Canadian folk singer-songwriter who in July released a new album entitled Things Were Never Good If They're Not Good Now. We spent some time talking about music, what mental health means to guys, as well as his journey as a musician and songwriter. He is also going to be on tour starting October 3rd, so be sure to find him playing in the city near you. I hope you enjoy the conversation I had with Donovan Woods.

Matt (00:24)
I'm excited to have Donovan Woods on. I I appreciate you taking the time to sit here and talk a little bit today. How's things been?

Donovan (00:31)
Everything's going okay. Yeah. Yeah. How are you doing?

Matt (00:34)
I'm good, I'm good. So I'm just curious, what was like the music scene growing up in your household? was music a big part of your life or was it something you kind of grew into?

Donovan (00:44)
My mom was a singer, like she sang when she was a kid and she was in a singing group. it wasn't like, Like music was... It wasn't crazy. was people were, like she was doing it. She was singing all the time. So it wasn't weird to sing for me. And I think, like, it was funny to sing joke songs or to... It just wasn't weird to sing because my mom was always singing around the house. So think that has something to do with it. I think it maybe at some people's houses it would have been weird to just spontaneously sing.

something, but it wasn't in my house. So I think that was really my introduction to music. know, she just, every morning when she woke us up she was singing and so I was just used to it and I liked it. You know, it made me feel comfortable. And I still think that, I still think that like singing is like self -soothing to me. I noticed that when I'm singing to myself on the street, I'm trying to calm myself down, I think, which is a little bit of a sadness to that, but I do think it is true.

Matt (01:23)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, were you, do you consider yourself like a songwriter first or like an artist first? Or do you think those kind of coincide?

Donovan (01:45)
I think I'm... They seem to now, but I think I like songwriting. I didn't ever anticipate being a singer or a musician. I didn't think that I would do that. When I found out that there was a job where you could just be a songwriter, I thought, I should do that. That sounds great. Because that would be much more suited to my skills, I thought.

Matt (02:06)
So when you, was it like a moment where you decided that you wanna be a songwriter? Is it something you kind of worked on as a kid? And then what'd that first break look like? And what's it looked like since then?

Donovan (02:19)
I always had... when I learned to play the guitar, all my friends were learning to play the guitar. It was like the time of Pearl Jam and stuff, so everybody was trying to play the guitar. when I learned to play it, I just started to write songs. Nobody else did that. Everybody else just learned to play Metallica songs and stuff, which was awesome and was impressive to people. But I immediately started to write, try to write songs. I didn't...

share them with anybody. I was just kind of embarrassed, but I thought that would be the coolest thing to do with a guitar, and the best way to impress somebody. But I didn't share them for many years. And then I did all of like school, and I sort of read songs all along just for me. I didn't give them to anybody, it was too embarrassing. And then I started to, when I was done university,

I started to feel like the songs were good enough that people might want to hear them. So I started to put them out. And that was a time of blogs. So you could get attention from blogs. I did, I remember that I got reviewed by this blog that was in...

Australia or something I think was the first and it was a big deal and I didn't I had never heard of the blog but it was really influential and you know much like your channel now where it's like It's like it was sort of out of nowhere Suddenly these blogs had really great influence and the first big break was from that honestly and I remember I had I had the record up just for free on on like a torrent site and it got downloaded like

I want to say 6 ,000 times or something from that blog and that was a massive deal to me at that point.

Matt (03:48)
Yeah, I mean, especially in the time of blogs like that had to be Yeah, 6000 even just from a blog. That's crazy. Honestly, especially considering part of the time. I mean, it was early like mid 2000s mid teens

Donovan (04:01)
It would have been like 2005, 2006, I think. Yeah, it was a big thing.

Matt (04:08)
Yeah, that's huge. So I know for me, kind of retrospectively looking at things, I kind of wish that I branded myself a little bit differently, like kind of attaching myself directly to things is a little weird at times. I'm kind of curious, what's your thoughts on having a solo project named directly after yourself and how you feel about it?

Donovan (04:32)
You're the first person who's ever asked me this question and I have a lot to say about this. I never get that. I wish that I did a project name every day of my life. That's really one of my only regrets about music is that I just wish that it wasn't my name all the time because it's so intensely personal and everyone... everything just becomes kind of way too personal and I wish that I just picked a cool name. And also I do think it's...

Strange for people to wear another person's... Like it's more intense to wear a person's name on your shirt than it is to wear Bony Bear or something. Do you know what mean? Like it's just a much more intense thing to have to do. I just wish I... Like you, just for one step of removal. I wish all the songs didn't have to be about me. And of course, maybe they still would be. And they're not even really. But like, it always feels like they are. I just wish I picked a cool name.

Matt (05:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Donovan (05:25)
like something cool. I think of Bahamas, they've got Afey from Canada who plays under the name Bahamas and I'm like yeah I should have done that.

Matt (05:27)
Right.

Yeah, I imagine there has to be like, yeah, there's like an inherent pressure, right? Like everybody just assumes that you're writing from such a personal place that it's almost like hard to live up to at times, I can imagine.

Donovan (05:46)
Yeah, it's that. It's that feeling exactly. And also I don't... I just get so tired of writing my name and also I feel like just using my actual name to try to advertise everything is just a bummer. Like it's just makes me feel like I have a child screaming upstairs. But yeah, like it's just... It's tough. I wish that I did that. But I didn't have the foresight. I had no idea.

Matt (06:02)
It's okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of in the, in the same boat when I had first started doing this, like never anticipated it getting to where it is now. And by the time it had gotten to that point, it was too late and we're just, we're just kind of rolling with it at this point.

Donovan (06:16)
Yeah.

because you sometimes do see people that try have that experience and they're trying to change the name and you know you're like no it's tough dude I don't think it's gonna go yeah yeah

Matt (06:30)
Yeah, you're better off leaning into it almost and just kind of letting it go and see what happens. So for those of you who don't know, you have a new album out, The Things Were Never Good If They're Not Good Now. And from what I understand, that's influenced by your experience with therapy, mental health, travels, journeys. Just kind of curious.

Donovan (06:42)
Yeah.

Matt (06:52)
you know, what your road down the therapy route has kind of offered for you and what you think too about it and you know what it kind of all means.

Donovan (07:00)
I had like a... I was just... I guess what I had would be described as a midlife crisis. I don't feel like I'm at the middle of my life, I hope not, but I just had like... a lot of things... lot of patterns in my life were repeating over and over again in relationships and in personal relationships and in like work relationships. The same things were happening again and again and I was... and I was having a really hard time with it.

and I had to be like, it's me, it has something to do with me because I'm the only common denominator between all these things. So there's something up with me in the way that I'm not acting right, the way that people treat me is not the way I want to be treated. And so I just, had done therapy before but I didn't really, and maybe you can relate to this, I didn't really like do it for real. I didn't really like tell everybody the truth all the time.

And I wish that I had. I spent so many years just sort of concocting a conversation. So I finally, I just committed myself to saying everything. Because I had no other choice. I felt like my life was gonna kind of unravel if I didn't. And that was about like nearly two years ago now. I've just had like such a, such a fun.

I mean, hard, really difficult, but an interesting road to sort of self -discovery and being just like trying to not...

be two people, just trying to unite, trying to not have a me who has these great values and beliefs and then the me who doesn't really follow those values or lives ashamed of myself or feels awful about myself and lets the way I feel about myself dictate my behavior and these types of things. You don't really see these, I mean, you always hear about shame, people go like, shame's a big deal. And you go, yeah, shame is bad, can't have that. But you don't really know until you have like a person, and I had a therapist who

really walked me into it in an interesting good way. it was the first time I realized why that was happening, why I was repeating these patterns in my life. And it did have to do with shame, it did have to do with self -esteem and the way I felt about myself. And through a whole bunch of work I've been able to sort of, and that's still a process of course, but I've been able to sort of unite those two people and actually live.

be one front -facing guy who is, you know, I'm proud of myself as opposed to being ashamed of myself all the time, which is really hard to say and really hard to admit to, but I most of my life being ashamed of myself all the time. trying to not do that is really, God, it feels so good when you achieve it, but it's a process, though,

Matt (09:38)
Yeah, I think for me too, so I started therapy probably maybe two years ago at this point, had spent the better first part of it, kind of doing the same thing you did. I was going, but it was figuring out what I wanted to say prior to getting in there. yeah, probably the past year, year and half -ish.

Donovan (09:54)
Yeah.

exactly.

Matt (10:02)
really like facing the demons that have really, you know, been with me forever. And I think too, part of it was kind of when I started social media, never again, never expecting it to be as big as it is. I've started to like wanting to be forward facing a certain way and not open to, you know, just the struggles that

everybody seems to go through now, you know, but recently really starting to lean into it and be open to it and just kind of share what's going on and, know, be a human. think that's gone such a long way and me not overthink and everything. So.

Donovan (10:37)
Yeah, yeah. I think it's gonna be up to us to use... I mean, we know that social media is bad. mean, we know that it is...

But I think it will be up to us to use it in a way that isn't so harmful. I think the first step, like you said, is to let it represent ourselves as whole people instead of curating and picking and choosing and allowing that to go. Because cumulatively, everyone's curated life is so depressing to look at. makes you feel so awful about yourself. And it's such a simple, we all knew that from the beginning, and it's such a simple idea.

Matt (11:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Donovan (11:14)
but it's so true, it's so true it just like pulverizes your sense of self. So yeah.

Matt (11:16)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's very easy to fall into like you watch somebody have this amazing life online and you're like, wow, my life is awful. then, you know, you take

Donovan (11:28)
Yeah, and even if you know that, even if you're registering that, that's part of your reality. I know this is a curated version of person's life. know that everyone has struggles and this isn't their real life. It's still hard to separate it. I still see people on vacation all the time. go, how do these people go on vacation? What are they doing on these vacations? But it's tough. It's just hard.

Matt (11:49)
Yeah, it really truly is. And so I'm curious, kind of in that same that same note, how does being on the road affect like that that journey for you? How do you kind of find yourself being able to center even while not being, you know, in the comforts of home?

Donovan (12:06)
It's really hard. It's Yeah, I mean...

it's like generations of people who have struggled with it and you realize why as soon as you go do it it does so many strange things to you and you have to be really regimented about what your day looks like and have to make sure that you're doing all checking all the boxes that make you feel i mean that's me i have a predilection towards a look like

Depression and gloominess and if I allow myself to get down that road far enough, I will feel like everybody hates me There's no point to everything I will start, you know what mean, slipping into the bad place and the way that I have to counteract it is I have to like go on a walk first thing in morning It's easy things but things that you don't want to do when you're depressed and that's what's so frustrating about dealing with a friend or something who's depressed because the things you're gonna suggest are so annoying and irritating nobody wants to hear them

Matt (12:58)
Mm

Donovan (13:00)
But it really is like you drink a lot of water and you go, I drink so much water. It's embarrassing. I am carrying around a giant thing like a yoga person. am like.

and I walk as soon as I get up. get off the bus and I walk as soon as I possibly can for as long as I can until I'm tired. And then the rest of day is usually very smooth. But if I don't keep up with those things, or I don't do something that I like, I go to art galleries like crazy on tour, I'll really prioritize going to an art gallery. So if I can walk to one, that's wonderful. Just these types of things. Because if I don't, when it's after the show and I've eaten weirdly...

and I'm trying to fall asleep on a bus, I can't do it, and I start to kind of spiral into negativity. So it's just a matter of being really disciplined about it. And it gets worse when you have kids and you're away from your kids, it's such an interesting and weird job. It's such a strange job, and it puts you a great amount of peril, I think.

Matt (13:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, I have I've told other people this I have such a respect for artists after kind of seeing and understanding because I don't think prior to this I understood like the entire process of being on a tour, right? I thought you just showed up, had a good time left. know, but then understanding like the load in out the load in load out sound check like your entire day is so structured and then, you know, you pack it up, you're somewhere else the next day and doing the same thing. It can be

Donovan (14:14)
You

Matt (14:28)
I can imagine it's very, very overwhelming. know for me, when I go, like, I was at a festival this past weekend and gone for five days and like that in its own right, like will send me off the deep end sometimes if I don't, like you said, if I'm not super.

Donovan (14:42)
Yeah.

Matt (14:44)
regimented about it and it's very easy to slip back into very like you said negative dark thoughts and Let them control you. So yeah, just develop this crazy amount of respect for you guys and Just super interested on everybody's you know Regiment or thoughts on how to kind of keep their head together

Donovan (15:03)
Yeah, and that's not even to mention, though, like, and it doesn't, it's, you know, my amount of success is very moderate, so it's like, but it still does something to you to end up in a room full of people at the end of the night who are really excited to see you. And it just sort of gives you a kind of weird homeostasis for validation, that you end up feeling like that's a normal amount of validation to get every day.

And then when you suddenly have a day off and you receive no validation, you feel like it's the worst day of your life, even though it's a totally normal day. Most people don't receive a spending ovation per night. Most people receive that at their wedding. Maybe that's the only time. So to keep yourself in check in regards to that is, that's part of it too, just feeling like it's not normal. This is all part of a show.

this isn't where I need to get my validation from. I have to get my validation from really liking myself and really believing that I'm a good person, which is more difficult than receiving it from a bunch of excited, happy people, which is where you really would like to get it, you know?

Matt (16:08)
Yeah, it's so funny how that works. On a much, much smaller scale, I've experienced it a little bit in this space where people are excited to meet me. I struggle with liking myself on a day -to -day basis, for someone to be excited to meet me is really odd. In terms of...

Donovan (16:19)
Yeah.

Totally. At the end of the show, when I have to say, if you want to meet me, I'll go over to the merch table. When I say things like that, I can barely get it out of my mouth. Like the idea that some of want to meet me is so... I don't think it... I mean, I really appreciate it. I think it's really nice, but it seems so arrogant to say I have a hard time to even say it, you know?

Matt (16:47)
Yeah, I can absolutely relate on a very small scale to that. So as an artist, do you think there's enough resources for people in music to take care of their mental health?

Donovan (16:50)
What's that?

Yeah, there's, I mean there is a lot, I mean I know in Nashville there's, I wish I could remember the name, in Canada there's a thing called the Unison Fund, which is a specific mental health fund for artists and musicians. What's the one in Nashville called? There's a really good one in Nashville. I mean these things exist because artists and musicians have known...

the entire 100 years of popular music that this is what happens to people. there are resources. It's just, I will say that in my own experience of with friends who are struggling with mental health, who are artists and musicians, it gets really hard to...

step into those conversations with people when they're adults, especially grown adults that become... You know, one of my friends became a really successful songwriter and was, you know, very much, you know, was a really wealthy guy who had all the trappings of wealth. It was very difficult to end up to have a conversation, to try to have a conversation with him about his mental health because it seemed so patronizing to him.

And I think like the answer to that, I mean it's nice to have resources and things that they can turn to on their own, but a lot of people won't do that on their own unless there's somebody supporting them. And because it's so hard to get into those conversations, I think like even when times are good, having all those conversations, making sure that you're cultivating a friendship with somebody where those conversations aren't uncomfortable. Because we got to the point where I couldn't have those conversations with them.

And I didn't know how to approach it. And he died. He died in November. And he may have taken his own life. We're not really sure exactly what happened. But he was not living in a way that was...

sustainable, that's for sure. And I regret it, I think about it every day and I regret it every day, that I did not keep lines of communication open in a better way with him. And I mean, he's an artist and a musician and he was suffering and it was hard to get through to him. It was scary, I found it really scary. And I think of myself as a person who's really good at being like, hey, let's talk. And I didn't do a good job there and I regret it every day, yeah.

Matt (19:10)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's tough. like in a very same light, I'm going through that with a very close friend of mine who's kind of struggling with some some issues himself. And I try to reach out as much as possible. You he lives fairly far enough away that it's not I can't just drive there and, you know, say what's up. yeah, it's it's I think it goes to show and it's very important to constantly have somebody in your corner to at least

check you a little bit and to be willing to be like, you know, like you're not being yourself and you need to take a step back and that goes a long way.

Donovan (19:51)
Yeah, you're not being yourself. It's such an easy thing to say if you can say it. it's like, yeah, so rarely do I think especially, I mean women are really excellent. These are all generalizations of course, but women are mostly really good at validating each other and knowing where each other is at. And I think men do a bad job of that. And it becomes a harder gap to bridge for us.

Matt (20:18)
Yeah, yeah, 100%. Like that's part of at least what I try to do, you know, daily, like, the, close guy friends, I try to at least reach out and see what's going on. And then even as simple like on the internet here, like I'm trying to really is small platform as I, know, have like try to de -stigmatize like guys being vulnerable in that space. because yeah, it's so often that, know, you're supposed to be very

Donovan (20:41)
again.

Matt (20:46)
masculine not talk about these things keep it in whatever and it ends up very bad

Donovan (20:51)
We know the feelings that you want to be a person who's attractive and appealing in the world and that is not a vulnerable person. Regardless of how that toxicity still exists in all of us in a strange way. And I end up having a lot of conversations with men who just through my songs have found some sort of...

Matt (21:00)
Mm -mm.

Yeah.

Donovan (21:14)
I remember I had, most recently I had, after a show guy came up to me and talked to me about this song I have called Man -Made Lake and he said, that song makes me cry and I don't know why. And I was like, well I'll tell you why, my friend. Because you don't have a good relationship with your dad, I would say. And he's like, yeah that is it. And I was like, yeah dude. We gotta talk about this stuff, my man.

Matt (21:24)
You

Yeah, yeah, yeah, goes. It's it's funny how certain songs can do that. yeah, especially for guys for guys to have like that kind of connection to a song, though. I think that's huge and good in its own right. It's a good way to like, even if you're not willing to talk about it, have some music or something to outlet in some type of way.

Donovan (21:53)
Yeah, I think a lot of people, lot of men in particular, don't really have that... You know, I have an inner monologue going on all the time and I'm always... I have like an internal life. And I think a lot of men don't have time for that stuff. They're working so much that like, they don't have time to sit in a room and think like, how am I feeling? Which makes a lot of sense, you And so if music helps provide a space for that, then there's nothing more useful than that, for sure.

Matt (22:06)
Yeah, I think, yeah.

You

Yeah, so it's it's been like 15 ish years since you've like first started releasing music that I think that's is there Any advice you'd give to like younger Donovan Woods?

Donovan (22:32)
I think like, I mean it's the same advice I'd give to any young person which is just like, and I think I have achieved it mostly with moments of moments of error which would just be like don't chase things don't chase the thing that you think is gonna bring you success or attention just serve yourself

entirely as an artist and don't allow the external validation to guide where you're going as an artist. Because I've watched so many people, and I've experienced it, I have songs of mine in my catalog that I released and I listen to it now and I hear the sound of clamoring for attention or wanting, you know,

wanting to be just heard and seen. And those are never the songs that resonate over a long period of time. The songs that people hold onto for the rest of their lives are ones that came from I was only trying to satisfy an emotion that I was trying to express or a mood or a feeling that I was trying to express. And that's like, especially in an age where we have...

I can tell when someone skips my song, they skip it at 12 seconds. That information is available these days. The intro is too long, people skip the intro. These types of things. When all of that data is available, it gets harder and harder to focus just on what you want to do.

And also I feel for younger kids coming up through TikTok where there's so much immediate feedback from fans and maybe fans don't, God love them. they're, everybody's lucky to have supporters. They don't necessarily know what they want all the time. They don't, what they want is awesome things. And to make things that make them feel inspired and are awesome, you have to like satisfy yourself first. And all that stuff is like artist cliche stuff. And when I was younger, if I said that to myself, I would have been like, eh, shut up old man.

Matt (24:11)
it.

Yeah.

Donovan (24:26)
But it proves to be true again and again and again that you have to satisfy yourself first. It can't be the same.

Matt (24:32)
Yeah. So with your new album, we're, you know, just kind of talk to talk to us about it and kind of where your space was at and how you feel about it and just give us a little rundown on it.

Donovan (24:45)
Well, was in the of the throes of really like kind of undoing myself and starting my... kind of starting myself again. I was writing all those songs and I sort of gather up... I mean there was a big gap between this record and the last one. There was a side project that I was working on that didn't happen just because of music business reasons.

so there's a big gap between this record and the last one and there was a lot of songs over those four years there was a whole other record that sort of got I mean those songs may come out but I just started to write things like crazy in the middle of therapy and tried to find the words to the feelings that I was going through and yeah, and that's what the record is it feels like after a couple of records of

of really, I don't want to say chasing, I think they're good records and there's songs on there that are really meaningful, when I listen to them now, they sound like a guy who's trying to fill a theater really loud with music as opposed to a guy who was writing the things that he wanted to write. This record to me feels like the exact thing that I wanted to make in a way that I've never really experienced.

Because when I was a kid I didn't have any money, we had to steal recording time. There's nothing we could do. I couldn't make the exact thing that I wanted, we just didn't have the resources. This one really does feel like the exact thing that I wanted to make.

Matt (26:05)
That's awesome. I think so I've, I've listened through it and man, yeah, I just, it feels, and I don't want to be cliche, you know, talking about where you're coming from with it, but it does feel therapeutic and very, back to earth a little bit and very honest and

Donovan (26:07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Matt (26:24)
And that's, mean, that's what I appreciate about most folk music to begin with is, you know, kind of the honesty and the story that the person's telling. So, yeah, I think it's, appreciate, you know, I really do enjoy it and appreciate the music you put out for sure. So for those who don't know, Donovan takes to Twitter once a year to...

Donovan (26:32)
Yeah. Thank you.

Thanks, man. Appreciate it, man. Thank you.

Matt (26:47)
rank the Great Lakes. So as someone who has once I lived on Lake Ontario for about three or four years. Yeah, I just I need to know where the

Donovan (26:48)
You

I'll do something. That's pretty nice. That's pretty good.

you just cut out there for a minute, I'm sorry. Sorry. What did you say? What was the question? I didn't hear the question.

Matt (27:00)
Yeah, you're good.

I just need to know kind of where the love or non -love for Lake Ontario comes from.

Donovan (27:10)
well, it's like, first of all, I'll say that they're all great, period. And fourth is not that bad. It's pretty good. Like, I think Ontario moved up to third last year, I think. I do, I do really like it. I do think it's good. I mean, I live on Lake Ontario. So like, you know, Toronto is there. So I, where did you live in Cleveland? No, Cleveland's on E. Rochester. Yeah.

Matt (27:31)
I lived in Rochester. Yeah.

Donovan (27:34)
I don't really dislike it. I just don't think it's as good as the other ones. It's still really good. I feel like they're all really good except for Eerie. There's a lot of cities on Eerie that are like...

Matt (27:40)
Alright.

Little rough.

Donovan (27:44)
Well, like Cleveland's on airy and Buffalo's on airy and like it's tough, it's a tough, it's a tough lake. But the other ones, yeah, mean like Ontario, there's a place in Canada called Sandbanks National Park, is on Lake Ontario and it is like beautiful, it's so beautiful. It's basically just like, they're all really, I mean, have you been on Lake Michigan? Have you been to like Charlevoix or Peninsula? it's like something else, dude.

Matt (28:09)
no.

Yeah.

Donovan (28:13)
Canadians get mad that Michigan is above Ontario, but it's just, it's a better lake, unfortunately.

Matt (28:19)
So what's the song in your catalog that maybe, you know, maybe not the most popular or, you know, never got a bunch of recognition, but that like you're super proud of?

Donovan (28:29)
man, there's so many. There's like, They never like,

don't know. There's a song called, on the last record, my last record was a record called Without People, and there's a song called Lonely People on it, which I always thought was really good, and nobody really liked it when it came out. But it's like, you never can tell. You never can tell what's gonna work. You just like, and then I have a song called I Never Loved No One, where I didn't think much of it, and it's probably my second most popular song of all time, so it feels like...

don't really know. But yeah, Lonely People, I really loved a lot. I have a song called While All the While that I wrote with my friend Lori McKenna, who's one of my favorite songwriters. And I really love that song. And it was a single. I think it was maybe during COVID. Sometimes you do a single and it just comes out and then it's just out and then nobody says anything.

Matt (29:14)
Hmm.

Donovan (29:19)
Not the greatest feeling, but yeah, those two maybe I think.

Matt (29:22)
What about a song or an artist that you think more people need to be listening to?

Donovan (29:27)
dude, I mean I have so many, like, certainly not as much in touch as you are, but I wish that I was. I'm very envious of, I mean you've already, you told me what song to listen to on the Donald Glover's new record, Childish Can't Be No More, that the song that you posted about is the best one on the record without a doubt. can't wait call it, it's so good. I had started at the beginning, I can't remember which one is it, it's the one that has like two distinct parts.

Matt (29:47)
Yeah, it's so good.

The ocean oil one. Yeah.

Donovan (29:56)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I had started that record at beginning and I was like, okay. And then when you posted that on, was like, yeah, he's right. That's the best. But like, yeah, I mean, I have right now I'm really into this song, Every Rain by this Luke Borchelt guy. Borchelt? Borchelt? I don't know how Americans pronounce French names, but it's B -R -C -H -E -L -T. Luke Borchelt. And a song called Every Rain. It's really good. It's kind of countryish.

and I've been listening to it kind of obsessively. And then there's a Canadian guy called Leif Volebeck. Have ever heard of Leif Volebeck? Who I have been just sort of a fan of his writing and what he does for years. And he's sort of a guy who if he's in town, I will go see him without a doubt. I think he's so fantastic.

Matt (30:30)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, so kind of wrapping up here a little bit, give you a chance to kind of plug something for yourself and talk about a tour or album, whatever you want.

Donovan (30:55)
Well yeah, like just listen, I feel like just listen to that record and I'm going on tour in the fall. There's some American dates, there's some Canadian dates.

website is DonovanWoods .net. It seems crazy to say the name of a website but that's what it is. Yeah, think like just, you know, I think, listen, more than the show, I mean it would be nice to come to the shows, but like just listen to the music, just try to listen to the new record if you can because I feel like it's a pretty good statement of what I do and I feel like it will expose you to, and if you like it, you'll like it. I think like there's, if there's one thing I know about my career that I've learned over the amount of time, it's

it like it's not for everybody it's not not everybody is willing to commit a Saturday night to feeling the way that my songs might make you feel so I'm lucky to have the amount of people that I have and I feel really and the people who like it like it and the people who don't like it I get it so try it and see

Matt (31:39)
Right?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, man, I appreciate you being on and taking some time out of your day. yeah, I'm excited to see you. Mike, to see you when you come through Philly. So hopefully.

Donovan (31:58)
Yeah, that'd be great. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it and nice to chat.

Matt (32:01)
Yeah, appreciate you. Yeah, absolutely.